Radio jock Charlamagne Tha God gives the backstory on his epic on-air conversation with Kanye West
For the Kanye West obsessive, Thanksgiving arrived a few days early. After illuminating New York City brighter than its normal holiday wattage with his “Yeezus Tour”––two shows each at Barclays and Madison Square Garden––Kim Kardashian’s better half capped his Big Apple exhibitions with a 48-hour press run that appeared as dizzying in route as it was on-air. The impassioned and often enigmatic rap artist stopped by terrestrial stations like Z100 and satellite kings such as Sirius. His interviews ran a monopoly on Internet headlines. There was breaking news (the Yeezys fart Air; Ye inks new shoe deal with Adidas), new info on old news (West chose Jay-Z over Dame Dash to learn how to be nice), a litany of poppycock quotables (“Me and Don C got people wearing Jordans”), and an expected spazz on an unexpected target (Sway Calloway). The cream of the crop, though, was the Power 105.1’s Breakfast Club interview aka Yeezus vs Charlamagne Tha God. With DJ Envy and Angela Yee taking a reclined seat, a steely, resolved and relentless CTG jabbed his way through quite possibly the best interview of his 16-year career. The interview was such a highlight, it inspired VIBE Editorial Consultant, Bonsu Thompson to ring Charlamagne (fresh off of a plane to his home state of South Carolina for the holidays) in hopes of garnering some insight on CTG’s interview and current disdain for Mr. West. Thanksgiving came early indeed. This is how the on-record portion of the epic 55-minute call went.
*Phone rings*
Charlamagne: Yooo
NAZ: What up sir?
Bonsu!
Again, great work yesterday. You were definitely prepared, but loved the way you kept your pivot.
Thank you, man. You know what’s funny? Everybody kept saying ‘You were prepared,’ but I’m a fan of the culture. We all sit back and hear Kanye’s rants and interviews and wonder what happened to our guy.
When did you first hear that you were going to interview Kanye?
Friday [the station] hit me and said Kanye would be coming to the station [on Monday] at 10am. My reply back was ‘Yeah, right. I’ll believe it when I see it.’ That was literally my reply back, and I didn’t think nothing else of it. On Sunday, we got a call from Def Jam like ‘Kanye’s not going to do the interview unless you go see his show.’ I was like ‘I’m going to watch my Cowboys play the Giants.’ [Laughs] I would love to interview him, but I’m not beat. Angela Yee ended up going to the show and he ended up coming.
To be honest, what Angela said about the show making you appreciate the Yeezus album a little more is true. So were the Cowboys the only reason you were against seeing the show?
I’m not on the Yeezus tip right now. He put out an album that didn’t shift the culture at all. He talks about it being a conversation piece and polarizing, but everything that comes out, whether it’s a TV show or book, is polarizing. So for that to be the selling point of his album is not good. That’s regular. Saw the “Glow In The Dark Tour”––amazing. Saw the “Watch The Throne Tour”––amazing. Just wasn’t into Yeezus. Rather go see my Cowboys.
Kanye walks in for his interview. What’s his energy like?
First thing the label people asked was, ‘Charlamagne, you going to be nice today? ‘Absolutely not,’ was my response. Nice to them is me throwing softball questions and stroking his ego. That’s not what I do. I’m either a fan or a disgruntled fan. With ‘Ye I was a disgruntled fan. All year this guy has turned me off. I’m looking at him like ‘Who is this guy?’ What is your agenda? If you’re upset because they won’t allow you into the fashion world, that’s a Kanye West plight. That’s not a black people plight. How does you not getting into the fashion world effect us as a community?
It is his plight, but it seems as if he’s trying to motivate the same way he did on College Dropout, where he spoke on folks wanting to him to only produce and not rap. Now he’s a superstar rapper but still an artist who still wants to create and be more. As on Dropout, he’s saying don’t let them tell you what you can’t be. He feels they’re putting him in a box, so…
He put himself in a box! You said he’s telling us not to let anybody tell us what we can’t be, but he’s allowing them to tell him what he can’t be. Kanye West is one of the most powerful people in music. He’s a multi-millionaire, has tons of resources. Why can’t he do what Jay-Z did? Why can’t he do what Diddy did? If you don’t want to have an urban brand, don’t make an urban brand!
He’s saying to design at a Raf Simons or Versace level, he needs the best and to pay for the best he needs money and access. According to him, the gatekeepers aren’t giving him the access, thus no power.
Tommy Hillfiger isn’t even on a Versace level. I just read Mark Ecko’s book, where he says Tommy Hillfiger told him he’d never be a Ralph Lauren and Mark Ecko told him, ‘But you’re not even a Ralph.’ It’s like, who cares? You’ve got to build your chessboard. You can’t compare your level of success to other people’s level of success. I just don’t think he has a plan. When somebody asks what do you want to be in 10 years and you say Walt Disney, Steve Jobs and Michael Angelo, you don’t know what you want to do. You can’t talk to the universe like that. You have to be specific with the universe. 10 years ago he said he wanted to be the greatest rapper, an icon. He was specific about it and became that. But guess what? He wants to be Steve Jobs, Walt Disney and Michael Angelo; my brother, you ain’t even conquer the world of hip-hop yet. Let’s be clear! Kanye ain’t Jay-Z. Kanye hasn’t accomplished what Diddy has accomplished, what Baby has accomplished. He’s on his way, but he’s 36. Those guys are in their forties. It didn’t happen overnight for Jay. Jay put himself in position for these things to happen. That’s what Kanye has to keep doing, but now he’s putting himself out of position. What corporation is going to put you in position when you’re barking at them?
Why do you feel Kanye isn’t Jay-Z right now?
Hmm. Why is he not Jay-Z? That’s a good question. My personal opinion is it’s his attitude. Not only is Jay the best rapper on the planet, Jay’s a nice guy. Not only is Jay a nice guy, he tells you exactly where he is in his life on every album. Kanye has yet to tell any stories? Do we really know how he feels about his mother’s passing? Do we really know how he feels about North West? The difference is Jay-Z show and proves with actions and deeds and Kanye show and proves with words and lip service.
You’re tough. Getting back to the interview, Kanye walks in and…
He gives me a pound. That was the last time he looked me in the eye until the interview was over.
Ha! I saw that. Wasn’t that planned?
After the interview, I said we should stare at each other. He’s like ‘Yeah, like me and 50 Cent [on the Rolling Stone cover] Then he says, ‘You know the whole time my plan was not to look at you.’ There’s a picture I posted on Instagram of us laughing. That’s what we’re laughing at.
Do you feel ‘Ye’s obsession is only money or the evening out of wealth and its power?
Bonsu, check this out: Black people were oppressed for 400 years. We’re not going to catch up to people who are 200 years ahead of us. We need to realize that here in America we’re first and second generation millionaires. 15-20 years from now, there’s going to be more generational wealth amongst African-Americans. We just got our first black president; we’re just beginning to own NBA teams. We’re just starting to put ourselves in position, but like I said, you can’t compare your success to others.
OK, but you can’t deny that blacks, at every level, are still being treated, somewhat, as slaves. For a designer to tell a black rapper that he can’t attend anyone else’s show––when he wouldn’t demand the same of any equal in fashion––or Puma to say we’re trying to find a way to control you screams white entitlement and plantation psychology.
I don’t think it has anything to do with racism. I’ve been doing radio for 16 years. I’ve had program directors say ‘We need to control you,’ or ‘We need to make sure you’re not out of control.’ That’s not a black thing. That is Charlamagne has a reputation of slandering these artists or barking on the police. They have to protect their license. They don’t want to be fined by the FCC. So if Kanye goes on stage and curses out all these corporations, he’s messing up business. If we’re in business together, you’re not going on stage to mess up my business.
Tommy Hillfiger isn’t even on a Versace level. I just read Mark Ecko’s book, where he says Tommy Hillfiger told him he’d never be a Ralph Lauren and Mark Ecko told him, ‘But you’re not even a Ralph.’ It’s like, who cares? You’ve got to build your chessboard. You can’t compare your level of success to other people’s level of success. I just don’t think he has a plan. When somebody asks what do you want to be in 10 years and you say Walt Disney, Steve Jobs and Michael Angelo, you don’t know what you want to do. You can’t talk to the universe like that. You have to be specific with the universe. 10 years ago he said he wanted to be the greatest rapper, an icon. He was specific about it and became that. But guess what? He wants to be Steve Jobs, Walt Disney and Michael Angelo; my brother, you ain’t even conquer the world of hip-hop yet. Let’s be clear! Kanye ain’t Jay-Z. Kanye hasn’t accomplished what Diddy has accomplished, what Baby has accomplished. He’s on his way, but he’s 36. Those guys are in their forties. It didn’t happen overnight for Jay. Jay put himself in position for these things to happen. That’s what Kanye has to keep doing, but now he’s putting himself out of position. What corporation is going to put you in position when you’re barking at them?
Why do you feel Kanye isn’t Jay-Z right now?
Hmm. Why is he not Jay-Z? That’s a good question. My personal opinion is it’s his attitude. Not only is Jay the best rapper on the planet, Jay’s a nice guy. Not only is Jay a nice guy, he tells you exactly where he is in his life on every album. Kanye has yet to tell any stories? Do we really know how he feels about his mother’s passing? Do we really know how he feels about North West? The difference is Jay-Z show and proves with actions and deeds and Kanye show and proves with words and lip service.
You’re tough. Getting back to the interview, Kanye walks in and…
He gives me a pound. That was the last time he looked me in the eye until the interview was over.
Ha! I saw that. Wasn’t that planned?
After the interview, I said we should stare at each other. He’s like ‘Yeah, like me and 50 Cent [on the Rolling Stone cover] Then he says, ‘You know the whole time my plan was not to look at you.’ There’s a picture I posted on Instagram of us laughing. That’s what we’re laughing at.
Do you feel ‘Ye’s obsession is only money or the evening out of wealth and its power?
Bonsu, check this out: Black people were oppressed for 400 years. We’re not going to catch up to people who are 200 years ahead of us. We need to realize that here in America we’re first and second generation millionaires. 15-20 years from now, there’s going to be more generational wealth amongst African-Americans. We just got our first black president; we’re just beginning to own NBA teams. We’re just starting to put ourselves in position, but like I said, you can’t compare your success to others.
OK, but you can’t deny that blacks, at every level, are still being treated, somewhat, as slaves. For a designer to tell a black rapper that he can’t attend anyone else’s show––when he wouldn’t demand the same of any equal in fashion––or Puma to say we’re trying to find a way to control you screams white entitlement and plantation psychology.
I don’t think it has anything to do with racism. I’ve been doing radio for 16 years. I’ve had program directors say ‘We need to control you,’ or ‘We need to make sure you’re not out of control.’ That’s not a black thing. That is Charlamagne has a reputation of slandering these artists or barking on the police. They have to protect their license. They don’t want to be fined by the FCC. So if Kanye goes on stage and curses out all these corporations, he’s messing up business. If we’re in business together, you’re not going on stage to mess up my business.
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